Counting since 9.11.2005 <http://lipas.uwasa.fi/~ts/garbinfo/garb0190.html> Copyright © 1996-2007 by Prof. Timo Salmi Last modified Sun 25-Feb-2007 20:04:39

May we mirror Garbo archives?

No, I am afraid that for the time being it is not! I am very sorry to have to decline your friendly request. We cannot currently accept any new Garbo mirroring arrangements / agreements in addition to the about 27 sites worldwide already having our prior permission.

I wonder if you'd keep us in mind in the event you get free enough to consider new mirror sites for Garbo.

Much as I would like I can't keep a contact list for potential future events. It is a practical impossibility.

Incidentally, not allowing the new mirroring is not only a problem of me being personally pressed for time. It also is a problem not having the personnel resources to take care of the extra technical system management activities at Garbo's end. Only ordinary everyday system management problems can be seen to by the overloaded personnel at our computer centre. You see, while I am responsible for Garbo's general policies, the system management of Garbo is done by the university's computer centre, not by yours truly. I work at another department (Accounting and Finance) of our university.

From: ts(a)uwasa.fi (Timo Salmi)
To: A Garbo User
Subject: Are Garbo copyrights valid?
Date: Sat, 27 May 1995 05:13:51 +0300 (EET DST)

I can sort of see how the indexes might be subject to copyright, but I would think that the directory arrangement claim would be a little bit at the bleeding edge of copyright law. Has this claim been tested in court?

We've never had to go as far as to test these claims in court, God forbid. But my formulation of our rights is based on a serious discussion about both the index and the directory arrangement copyright issues with a lawyer here at the University of Vaasa, who is interested in the modern net issues. (Besides, there would be a simple technical solutions to counter continued unauthorized mirroring. We could simply block the mirror's access to Garbo archives.)

It would seem that if someone wrote a daemon to change names and reindex, they could circumvent your claims easily.

I am just a layman in these matters, but to me that sounds a bit like rewriting a text-book's detailed contents lists with a suitable program and then claiming that the original copyright no longer holds. To me it also has some resemblance to the question of reverse engineering.

Copyright, especially international copyright, and intellectual property are complicated issues. Beyond stating one's copyrights after legal council, as I've done for Garbo, these debates are best left to the professionals of law.

I mirror some sites on abc.xyz and abc.xyz is in turn mirrored at various places. I've never thought of trying to assert copyright. I'm more flattered than bothered by mirroring.

Yes, of course. I fully share your sentiment about mirroring mostly being a good thing. That is not the issue nor in doubt in here, even if, in the case of accidental offending material, it is problematic if the mirrors do not follow the main site's lead in removing such material. Unfortunately such cases have arisen. They are awkward from our point of view even though we explicitly refuse to be responsible for the actions of Garbo mirrors. However, what we were discussing here is rather a problem of our own resources and a problem of traffic control especially in the face of the uncertain Garbo future.

What's behind your concern with copyright?

I am not sure I quite understand why this part would need any explicit explaining. The same concerns as anyone has for one's copyrights.

All the best, Timo